Bosch Announces Better Diesel Engine: Sorry Germany, Diesel is Dead

Mike Mish Shedlock

Bosch announces a diesel engine with fewer emissions but it's too little, too late.

Bosch promises that the gains are for real, and there will be no shenanigans this time around.

This new technology promises to slash nitrogen oxide emissions, which are responsible for smog in congested areas, to one-tenth of the European legal limit set to take effect in 2020.

After the Dieselgate scandal, it seemed that diesel was on its way out as a fuel in Europe. Last year, demand for new diesel cars fell by 17.1 percent in the U.K., and sales in Germany have fallen by 19.5 percent. Some major cities are preparing to ban diesel altogether as early as 2025.

One More Chance Baby

Eurointelligence Comments

This story reminds us of the German company that developed the last generation of analogue telephone exchanges in the 1990s, hoping to fight off the relentless advance of the digital technology. It was mature and stable. And probably with some technical advantages over the then still-not-fully-developed digital technologies. But it came too late.

We find it hard to believe that this technology can be introduced early enough and in sufficient quantities to prevent diesel bans in German and other European cities. And the latter is the reason for the acute sales crisis of diesel cars, which has turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy. At a time when the US and China are developing electrical smart cars, the fate of the ultimate diesel engine looks to be the same as that of the world’s best analogue telephone exchange.

Headlines Tell the Story

These headlines tell the story, and it rates to escalate, no matter how good the new engine may be.

Diesel is Dead

Sorry Bosh, diesel is dead. Upgrading diesel technology is mostly a waste of time and money even if Bosh is telling the truth this time.

The future is electric. Germany still wants to look backward.

Mike "Mish" Shedlock

Comments (34)
No. 1-34
Jojo
Jojo

Agreed. Diesel can be used to generate the electricity to [re]charge the batteries.

Greggg
Greggg

I worked in the industry for 35 years. Boush was considered one of the worst suppliers for the auto industry.... them and Lucas-Methode. The problem with the whole industry is that safety/emissions testing and verification is self compliant. When you pile a bunch of capital into developing a product for a marketable price range and things don't work out like you'd like them to, the corporate pressure to cheat is enormous. Honda got away with all kinds of MVSS problems for years and the indications are that there was graft at the DOT, The system is wide open for bribery.

Wagner-
Wagner-

Bosch also invests its R&D into EVs (not sure how much percentage wise):

caradoc-again
caradoc-again

Problem trusting any German or EU company now. The degree of corporate capture is massive. Rules can be bent and foreign governments have to police as the Germans and EU obviously will not. Dieselgate the example. Watch out for Bayer/Monsanto. Test everything in the US.

hmk
hmk

Electric is not the way as of now. There is no business case for it. Please do the math before you keep repeating it.

stillCJ
stillCJ

Editor

Mish, have you ever owned a diesel vehicle? Usually I find that people who are skeptical of diesel engines don't know much about them. I have owned many diesel cars trucks and tractors and when they come out with the new diesel I will be eager to buy one. My VW TDI (turbocharged diesel) was one of the best cars I have ever owned (I've owned almost 100). I wish the so-called pollution problem had not been discovered so I could still be driving it, but VW made me a great buy-back offer I could not refuse. I could charge up an electric car for free with my solar system, but I'm not going there; not yet anyway.

Sechel
Sechel

germany is already banning diesel on high pollution days to major cities. its just too complicated for a dual standard based on which diesel you have. plus diesel has a bad reputation and no amount of advertising will easily change that

stillCJ
stillCJ

Editor

Maybe diesel has a bad reputation with you Sechel, as well as some others. But for those of us who know diesel, we like them. Maybe you are right about that first impression thing, for some people. But first impressions are based on minimal knowledge, and an intelligent person will always reserve the right to change their mind as knowledge improves.

stillCJ
stillCJ

Editor

You don't hear much about the trend of air pollution in north America. Reading the sensationalist news you would get the impression things are awful. Actually, the opposite is true: air pollution has been getting better and better: (I wish I could have found data that goes back further)

CautiousObserver
CautiousObserver

Mazda’s new Skyactive-X HCCI engine might be the actual death-blow for diesel. Mazda just won the Edison Gold Award, beating an aircraft engine made with woven carbon fiber composites, ceramic matrix composites, and 3D printed parts. The Skyactive-X runs on 87 octane gasoline, has emissions like a gas engine, and torque and efficiency like a diesel engine (30% higher efficiency than today’s gas engines). Mazda is featuring it in a 2019 production vehicle:

nodhannum
nodhannum

I see that Mish still doesn't like the first, second and third laws of thermodynamics with relation to the modern day version of the energy, perpetual motion, free lunch wunderkind of our time,the electric vehicle. Geez, I wonder what the overall efficiency of electric vehicles are?

hmk
hmk

I also have concerns that the emf's from the battery will have adverse health effects. I wonder if they have even been measured inside the car? I asked this question to a Tesla rep at the auto show and was told it was about the same as a cell phone. That really wasn't the answer I was looking for. I don't think cell phones are without health consequences if kept on your body all day. There is plenty of literature on the adverse health effects of cell phones emfs as well as from the power grid. When its recommended not to use electric blankets on your children or keep an electric clock within three feet of their heads it makes you wonder.

Kinuachdrach
Kinuachdrach

A colleague who works for a National Laboratory tells of the time he was stuck in a meeting about electric cars with a group of enthusiastic (if under-informed) greenies. One of the greenies was particularly vociferous about the zero-(tailpipe)-emissions benefits of the electric car. My colleague asked the greenie where the power came from to recharge the car's batteries. Greenie looked at him with ignorant incredulity, and pointed at an electrical socket on the wall of the conference room -- "From the wall, man! From the wall!".

JanNL
JanNL

The electric car enthousiasm is misplaced. Their only redeeming feature is the absence of engine exhaust in towns. Probably balanced by increased tire wear pollution.

klausmkl
klausmkl

mish writes meaningless dribble now. He proclaims diesel is dead yet he knows nothing of the technology. He is incontrovertible in his view. He proclaims electric but knows nothing of batteries or their technology. What he does know is to write many meaningless dribble articles for click bait so he can generate income and finally move out of his mom's basement.

ReadyKilowatt
ReadyKilowatt

Diesels and ICEs in general still have a lot of useful life in them. As long as we're not herded up into cities at least.

AWC
AWC

Fleet MPG doubled, and down time was halved when I went with diesel engine light duty trucks. Never going back to gas. Might not need to, as these diesel engines can run past 300,000 miles.

MissionAccomplished
MissionAccomplished

How much did China's go UP to make ours go DOWN? EnviroNazis - they make an economic wasteland, and they call it green.

Kinuachdrach
Kinuachdrach

klausmkl wrote: "... unpleasant ad hominems ..."

Klaus -- there is no need for that. If you don't think that Mish's observations are useful, spend your time elsewhere. I certainly don't agree with all of Mish's points of view, but I find his site to be very useful. He flags a wide variety of news items that don't necessarily get much coverage elsewhere -- items that I personally find useful, like this claim from Bosch.

Snow_Dog
Snow_Dog

“Bosch announces a diesel engine with fewer emissions but it's too little, too late.”

Silly German engineers! Musk will have colonized Mars by the time their diesel performance claims can be verified. Why should we waste any more time with this?

( ...sigh )

brainy
brainy

Diesel is quite DEAD - for passenger cars at least.
The efficiency of a Diesel can be reached via newer HCCI-engines, which don't seem to have the emissions problem of a diesel-engine.
Bosch's latest efforts here is just a hopeless. Even in Germany - the Diesel-Trend is clearly heading steep downwards ...

ELGRECO
ELGRECO

Sorry but you're wrong about diesel in Europe. The price of diesel is still very competitive especially in Germany where it is clear the government wants a long and smooth transition. I saw diesel at 1.10 euro at the pump not so long ago, that's very cheap considering it has been as high as 1.80. Although our EU member countries like to talk the green talk just to get a few more votes, in practice you will find most countries will bump up the road tax and parking rates for early vintage diesel engines and leave the latest ones alone (post Euro 5) for the time being. Its true the early cars are dirty, as are old petrol engined cars, but it doesn't help that there is absolutely no supervision nor any penalties for users who don't do any maintenance of these cars. Diesel seems to be a perfect cash cow for governments and thanks to VW they are the new pinata in town. Clearly, the automotive world wants to adopt EV in the long term but they know it is just that: the long term. Until then, there is no way an EV can replace a combustion engine in either cost, range and refuelling practicality when it is scaled up for mass use. I'm not even going to debate the fundamental idiocy of EV because manufacturers want it for their increased margins and cap cost, and governments want it too for votes and control over mass transport users; thus EV it is for all of us - whether a good idea or a bad idea, but no need to overhype it.

Cocoa
Cocoa

Electric cars require overnight charge. Is EUROPE going to have charge stations on the city sidewalks...because nobody has garages in European Cities if they have cars. Diesel hybrid may be better transitional technology while Cities figure out if they can manage street chargers

DanExMachina
DanExMachina

The story should be "Diesel cars are dead", not "Diesel is dead". VW just needs to terminate a lot of car lines and make a pickup. The build cost is similar to a car, but the profits are not. American companies only make cars to give people rides to the truck dealer.

wootendw
wootendw

If diesel is dead, those still around should go cheap. I liked my Mercedes 240D but let too many needed things go unfixed on it. Aside from nitrous oxide, diesel is more fuel efficient than gasoline, especially if you have a manual trans as I did. Diesels do need a turbocharger if you want decent pickup. My 240D was only 72HP at birth and probably less when I sold it at 300k miles. The turbocharger, however, may be the cause of the NO2 problem.

wootendw
wootendw

What happened to my comment?

stillCJ
stillCJ

Editor

I might consider buying an electric car when I can recharge the batteries in 2 min and then go another 600 miles, as with my diesel car & truck.

kpmyers
kpmyers

Diesel is definitely not dead in South America. I was in Chile last week and many of their autos are Diesel. Good luck getting that population to abandon Diesel.

ben
ben

I don't know how much electricity costs where you are, but here in Seattle the per-mile cost of electricity is much cheaper than gas or diesel. Lower maintenance cost for pure EV due to simpler drive train. I rode with a Lyft driver in a used Leaf he picked up for $9,000. Uses high speed charging stations twice a day, pays next to nothing. He seemed pretty happy.


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