Mike Mish Shedlock

Trump promises a "beautiful wall". Better not be trapped on the other side. It's already happened.

Beautiful Wall

Trump says it will be a "beautiful wall", much prettier than barbed wire.

My big concern is government property seizures to build the wall.

Trapped On Wrong Side

Imagine being trapped on the wrong side of the wall.

Though the Loops' home is on US territory, it is located on the other side of the country's border fence. The family was essentially locked out of its own country when the fence was built a decade ago. ...

By the time the fire engine arrived there was nothing to save. But it was hardly the firefighters' fault: An 18-foot border fence had blocked their way.

We all stood in the yard, listening to the cries of farm animals burning alive.

This is what's left.

They cannot get insurance to build, because they are on the wrong side of the wall.

That's just one post. There are dozens of others.

Split Right Down the Middle

Please consider Trump’s border wall threatens to end Texas family’s 250 years of ranching on Rio Grande.

The most recent government letter arrived in an envelope marked “Urgent: Action Required,” so Fred Cavazos asked his family to meet at their usual gathering spot on the Rio Grande. He and three of his relatives crowded around an outdoor table as Fred, 69, opened the envelope and unfolded a large map in front of them. It showed a satellite image of the family’s land, 77 rural acres on the U.S. border where Fred had lived and worked all his life, but he had never seen the property rendered like this.

“Border Infrastructure Project,” the map read, and across its center was a red line that cut through the Cavazos family barn, through their rental house, and through a field where they grazed a small herd of longhorn cattle.

“This is where they want to put the wall,” Fred said, tracing his finger along the line. “They want to divide the property in half and cut us off from the river.”

“We’d lose the renters,” his sister said. “We’d lose the cattle without access to the river.” All of it,” Fred said. “Who wants to live on the other side of that wall? If this goes through, our property’s useless.”

Beautiful!

Let's take ranchers' land and cut off access to water. No problem, it will be a beautiful wall.

Forget the Funding, Trump Needs the Land

The Hill reports Forget funding the wall, Trump needs the land first.

President Trump threatened to shutdown the government over funding for his border wall proposal. He thundered, “Build that wall…

Only about one-third of the land the wall would sit on is owned by the federal government or by Native American tribes. States and private property owners, especially along the Texas-Mexico border, own the rest.

Trump would have to engineer a monumental settlement with thousands of landowners who control thousands of acres of land along the border. Otherwise, the administration will have to face hundreds, if not thousands, of lengthy eminent domain disputes before anything is built across approximately 2,000 miles of the international border. Beyond the turf wars, the wall is sure to raise considerable litigation over environmental impacts.

If Trump can overcome the existing land obstructions, then his wall may rival the nation’s largest civil and military land acquisition projects in decades.

I Am Confused

OK, the wall will be beautiful, I get that. However, I might think otherwise if the government seized my land to build it.

It appears we have under-reported news of perfect security.

But if we have perfect security already, do we need a wall? Sorry, just asking.

No Need for Wall

Republicans had 8 years of Bush and 2 years of Trump to pass employer verification, to tighten EIC rules, to limit benefits, etc. etc etc.

Trump Vows "Very Long Government Shutdown"

Today Trump vows 'Very Long' Shutdown in border wall standoff.

Wall Defeated By Ladders

It's highly likely the billion dollar wall will be defeated by cheap ladders.

F the Wall

The irony in this madness is Trump brags that we have under-reported news of perfect security.

It's all too easy to sit back and endorse the wall as long as it's someone else's land, someone else's ranch cut in half, someone else's cattle that have no access to water, and someone else's house that gets burned down with no insurance.

Since this is how they are going to go about things, F the wall!

Mike "Mish" Shedlock

Comments (70)
No. 1-26
KidHorn
KidHorn

I don't care if we build the wall or not. I'm just sick of hearing about it. Both Trump and the dems are acting like 5 year olds.

shamrock
shamrock

Open the border both ways.

Mike Mish Shedlock
Mike Mish Shedlock

Editor

I did not care much either. I Simply thought it was a waste of money. However, I am now concerned about a land grab. Not acceptable.

This is the first time Twitter posted my direct reply to Trump.

JL1
JL1

I am disappointed in you Mish.

The border is NOT secure. There are illegal immigrants crossing all the time. There are even previously deported rapists and gang members crossing BACK into USA and only some are caught at the border.

Some migrants are dying of thirst when crossing the border in uninhabited places to avoid border patrol.

There is a little bit better border enforcement at the border but the WHOLE US-Mexico border needs a WALL.

The border enforcement can be stopped completely by the next president so a wall is the only solution that stops the flow of illegals permanently and stops the inhumane tragedies at the border with some migrants dying and the wall also stops previously deported criminals and gang members from returning.

The bureaucrats separating US land need to be FIRED and the border wall needs to be built on the border or very near the border and there needs to be a gate operated by the land owner for getting their cattle something to drink where the border is on the river.

The family whose home burned down behind the previously built part of border wall is a tragic case but there were many mistakes in that case:

1. The local firefighter department was not informed there was such a wall and that there was an US home behind that, the fire department should have had it clearly mapped out in their systems and there should have been a sign on the road pointing to the home.

2. The home owner should have opened the gate when his home caught fire so the fire department could get to it OR the fire department should have been given access codes to that gate previously.

Using such an individual tragedy to fight against a border wall is a shame.

Every rape, murder and assault committed by illegal immigrants and numerous drunk driving crashes caused by illegal immigrants resulting in death and maiming and permanent disability of Americans could have been PREVENTED if there was a wall.

To fight against a wall is to in effect say that one does NOT care that Americans are raped, murdered, assaulted and killed in drunk driving crashes by illegal immigrants.

On e-verify I agree with you, there needs to be a mandatory e-verify of all new and existing employees with heavy fines for companies that do not check that their employees are legally in USA.

Also ALL welfare and benefit payments and tax credits paid in cash to illegal immigrants need to be stopped so there is NO welfare magnet and there is NO jobs magnet pulling people into USA illegally.

Trump should have passed e-verify and benefits cuts to illegals in his first year but concentrated on stupid things and surrounded himself with INCOMPETENT ass-kissers telling Trump how great he is.

Trump is also afflicted by a syndrome that makes him brag all the time how something is the greatest ever and that is good if you are trying to sell luxury real estate but stops him from getting political results when he is surrounded by ass-kissers.

SMF
SMF

That wall was built 10 years ago?

hmk
hmk

I love President Reagan one the last true patriots, loved the US and I believe not corrupted by special interest money. That being said we do need a secure border. How that is accomplished I don't know. A wall seems like a good idea, no one else has put forth an alternative. Open immigration doesn't work when they all come in for welfare benefits. Many illegals do game the welfare system. Reagan was correct let those in willing to work and pay taxes while being restricted from get welfare. Fining employers and making it "illegal" to hire them is about as effective as the war on drugs. Never will work. Putting up the wall is bound to run into some snafus not surprising and should be easy to remedy. That is not a reason to scrap the project if that whats best. Resonable solutions to the issues that arise shouldn't be a big deal.

2banana
2banana

How did America ever build roads, railroads and canals? It is a mystery...

How did America ever farm and feed itself before the 1970s? It is a mystery...

Criminal illegal invaders cost Americans $135 billion per year. Why not spend a few percentages of that amount for prevention? There are 35 illegal criminal invaders in America - it is obvious that America has failed in border security.

And why not ONE story of an innocent American raped or murdered by an illegal.

In TEXAS ALONE (over 6 years) - illegal criminal invaders were responsible for 200 homicides; almost 69,000 assaults; 16,854 burglaries; 700 kidnappings; nearly 6,200 sexual assaults; 69,000 drug offenses; 8,700 weapons violations; over 3,800 robberies and over 45,000 obstructing police charges

Here are a few REAL stories of illegal criminal invaders destroying American families through their crimes:

Why not post a few? Or is that too confusing?

JL1
JL1

Getting the land to build the WALL on the border is NOT an issue in California, New Mexico and Arizona since President Theodore Roosevelt signed the "Roosevelt reservation" in 1907 that designated 60 feet along the US-Mexico border to Federal government in California, New Mexico and Arizona so there are NO land issues in California, New Mexico and Arizona since 60 feet is plenty enough to build a wall on the southern border.

The only issue regarding land is in Texas and in Texas Federal government needs to build the wall as close to the border as possible (NOT cutting off large parts of US land and homes while building partial walls like happened under Bush and Obama) and there needs to be gates operated by the land owner when the border is on the river if they have cattle. Also the land owners need to get adequate compensation for the actual land used by the border wall.

Building a wall in the middle of somebody's barn and rental house and cutting off large fields of US land is such incompetence that bureaucrats making that kind of stupid plans need to be FIRED on the spot because they are either beyond incompetent or deliberately making stupid plans to cause an outrage that leads to the wall never being built.

USA needs a WALL on the US-Mexico border to STOP illegal immigration that is driving down wages of Americans, stealing jobs from Americans, replacing Americans through birthright citizenship given to illegals babies and tourists babies, using American taxpayers money by getting welfare, benefits and tax credits despite being illegals, crowding the ER's and hospitals by illegal immigrants and getting free healthcare causing the hospitals to charge Americans life-destroying prices for healthcare and hospital stays because they have to get back the money spent treating illegals (Americans are paying up to 10,000 dollars for the birth of their baby while illegals get that for free and birthright citizenship also for the baby to become the illegal immigrant parents anchor to stay in USA) and most importantly STOPPING the criminal illegal immigrants raping women, raping kids, murdering, assaulting, robbing and killing/maiming Americans in drunkdriving crashes.

The insanity continued during Bill Clinton, George w. Bush and Barack Obama needs to be STOPPED and Schumer and Pelosi and all the elitists both in Democrats and Republicans living in their elite bubble and fighting the wall and wanting to CONTINUE destroying Americans lives through illegal immigration and all the problems that it brings need to be shamed for their continued cheering for more and more illegal immigration.

Schumer and Pelosi parade around as some moral superiors while Americans are DYING every day and now migrants are also DYING at the border while crossing through uninhabited places and in the desert areas to avoid border patrol. Also many migrants get raped and killed while in Mexico and this is also needless suffering that would stop if there was a wall since people would stay at home instead of trying to come to USA.

Mike Mish Shedlock
Mike Mish Shedlock

Editor

"Trump should have passed e-verify and benefits cuts to illegals in his first year"

Bingo!

And if he did that we would not need a wall. The dam wall will not even be effective. It will be defeated by 18' ladders.

numike
numike

Mexico border? How about we all look north. Do you know where copious numbers are crossing the border without any impediment at all? Canada Chatted with Slovaks here in the USA and they know the safest locations to cross the border from Canada into the USA for their friends and family.

MntGoat
MntGoat

"Fining employers and making it "illegal" to hire them is about as effective as the war on drugs. Never will work" (posted by HMK)

I tend to agree with hmk on this, they have been talking about penalizing employers for 30 yrs and its never worked at all.

Israel seems to be the worlds experts at building effective walls and airtight security on their border. Maybe they should consult with the USA on the wall? I would guess they have figured out how to prevent using ladders to just climb over. Razor wire? Really high wall that tilts inward a top? We do have such a long border though may be impractical.

USA is unique in that it shares a really long border with a poor developing nation. Most rich countries do not border poor countries and do not have this problem...Aus, NZ, Japan, most of Europe, Canada...do not border poor countries. Israel is one developed country that does border poorer countries and it has walls.

Sechel
Sechel

even though i share many libertarian ideals , i support the right of eminent domain when its in the public interest such as when we need to build a bridge, rail or highway but i don't believe that's the case with the wall.

the wall solves a political problem not an immigration problem

St. Funogas
St. Funogas

I spent ten years working with illegals so maybe I can shed a little light here. Mish totally hit the nail on the head.

Imagine if you were in a POW camp in WW II. There is absolutely no penalty for trying to escape. If you get caught, they bring you back, put you back in your barracks, and that’s it. Since there is no penalty for escaping, you’d have to be pretty screwed up in the head to just sit there instead of trying to escape. It’s the same with illegals, except instead of trying to escape, they are trying to get in. There is no penalty to speak of. You get caught, you get deported so you can try again. So a wall is totally useless. As long as there are jobs and welfare here, they are going to keep coming. The reward is far greater than the possible penalty. So don’t blame the illegals.

Don’t blame the employers either. They need workers, there is little risk of penalty, so again, the reward far outweighs the risk. Why is there so little risk? Because there’s not a single SOB in Washington who wants to fix the “problem”. It has a very cheap, easy fix, yet nobody in government wants to implement it. Republicans love illegals because they are good for business. Democrats love illegals because they are great for the welfare programs and their children are future Democrat voters. Both parties love illegals because illegals pay taxes and they pay into social security. And they never draw that social security back out and very few file tax returns to get their tax rebates. It’s a huge win/win for the SSA and IRS.

In my ten years working with illegals, they all have fake green cards and fake social security cards. They are not paid under the table as most people think. There is no need for that. The employer covers his ass by making copies of the illegal’s credentials just like they do for the legals. It’s not the employer’s responsibility to verify those credentials if the government itself is not willing to verify them. The employer can’t get any other workers (in my field at least) so why should the employer give a rat’s ass about whether their documents are legal or not? When the illegals get their first paycheck, the employer gets a letter back from the SSA saying that the social security number did not match the name. So right off the bat Uncle Sam knows this person is an illegal. And does nothing about it. Why would they? That illegal is paying into a fund that is bankrupt and the SSA needs all the money they can get. So again, don’t blame the employer. They’re just trying to run a business using the only workers they can get.

If anybody in Washington DC wanted to do anything about illegals, they’d have every employer purchase a credit card type machine to do an instant E-verify of every worker’s documents. Every welfare office, food stamp office, etc would have the same machines. Last time I crossed back into the USA from Mexico on foot, all the Mexicans ahead of me in line were doing just that, swiping their green cards through a reader before they were waved through. So the technology is already in place, yet nobody is doing a thing to get those machines installed in businesses. Why? Because nobody in Washington wants to fix the “problem” because none of them see it as a problem. Only a few of We the People see it as a problem. But when has the opinion of We the People ever mattered in Washington DC? When things just don’t make sense, check your premises. In this case, the premise that anybody in Washington wants to fix this is clearly a very bogus premise. The Wall is just one more gimmick to pacify the delusional.

Mike Mish Shedlock
Mike Mish Shedlock

Editor

Current illegals actually fly in or arrive on "temporary" visas then overextend their stay. Wall cannot fix that big problem.

Mike Mish Shedlock
Mike Mish Shedlock

Editor

Thanks to St Funogas for excellent comments!!

Jojo
Jojo

Ladders to Get Over Trump's Wall

We saw some folks are raising money for a border wall to keep out our migrant siblings and fellow human beings, who are fleeing violence and persecution and whose tragically-underpaid labor is essential to the U.S. economy. Seems like a bad idea on countless levels for everyone involved. Maybe we should focus on human rights and creating a community that reflects our supposed values.

And even though at a rate of $1.7 million daily, it would take their fund about 35 years to raise the $21.7 billion that Trump's own Dept. of Homeland Security says would be needed to build said wall, we wanna make sure ladders are ready to send over to our undocumented friends and help them.

If this seems ludicrous, we welcome you to the coalition of reasonable adults.

....

Blacklisted
Blacklisted

F Mish. There are consequences to every decision. The overall impact of a secure wall is less consequential than not having a wall. It is absolute ignorance to say 18' ladders are going to have any meaningful impact on the wall.

Cecil1
Cecil1

This is a pathetic argument. One tragedy has NOTHING to do with the need for and issues of building a Wall. The fact that you choose to attempt to conflate the two is both dishonest and frankly embarassing

Carl_R
Carl_R

There are no ideal solutions. Is the answer more tear gas? Is the answer training border patrols to shoot to kill? A wall is far more humane than most alternatives.

Sechel
Sechel

you bring up an interesting point. in much of the country its literally impossible to build because lawsuits block right of eminent domain for years. how is the federal government immune to that? or is it state vs federal?

Sechel
Sechel

there was a deal for the full amount in exchange for DACA but then Trump added new demands and limits on legal immigration. He doesn't want a wall. He wants an issue. Democrats will not agree to stop legal immigration. You recall the last minute argument about family reunification and the notion that speaking English become a criteria for immigrants? This was only done after a deal was negotiated for the wall. In effect Trump moved the goal post and blew it up.

WarpartySerf
WarpartySerf

Well.... every time you drive on Chicago freeways in your car, you're driving over municipally seized land. Every mile.

Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi

I don't get why people care about immigrant labor. Are they competing with all of you for jobs picking grapes or what? Immigration is a huge boon for our economy. This whole thing seems stupid, like a solution in search of a problem. What problem?

MatthewB
MatthewB

There was something I read suggesting that $16 billion a year of welfare payments went illegally to illegals, There are Americans who have given up looking for work and who have been displaced by illegals, Then you have the money that is exported to Central America rather than spent in USA. It would be good if accurate data could be collected as there are clearly economic and social costs, even if the politicians and bureaucrats appear to prefer to look the other way.

As far as the policy making side, Not only do special interest groups get in the way but also the apparent lack of effective analysis and a debate as to whether for example (the asylum system is fit for purpose, the merits of improved physical border security and or E-Verify.

wootendw
wootendw

"Better not be trapped on the other side."

I admit to being rather unusual but, honestly, I think I'd prefer living in no man's land. If only they'd let me declare independence, too.


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