Impeach Trump Stampede Won't do Democrats Any Good

-edited

Nancy Pelosi launched an impeachment inquiry based on claims Trump tried to coerce Ukraine into investigating Joe Biden.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi long resisted fellow Democrats' please to hold an impeachment investigation.

Today, that changed.

Following reports that Trump withheld aid to Ukraine while pressing the country to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and his son, Pelosi Announces Impeachment Inquiry.

“Today, I’m announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry,” Mrs. Pelosi said in the Capitol, in front of several American flags. “The action taken to date by the president appears to violate the constitution.”

She added that she was directing six House committees already investigating Mr. Trump to continue their probes “under that umbrella of impeachment inquiry.”

Democrats are also planning to vote Wednesday on a resolution condemning Mr. Trump for withholding a whistleblower complaint concerning Mr. Trump, part of which involves a July phone call between the president and his counterpart in Ukraine. Mr. Trump asked his acting chief of staff to place a hold on $391 million in aid to Ukraine more than a week before a July phone call in which the president urged his Ukrainian counterpart to investigate Mr. Biden’s son, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Mr. Trump said he approved the Wednesday release of an unredacted transcript of that July call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. But Democrats are also seeking details of the full whistleblower complaint. Mrs. Pelosi said if the administration is blocking the whistleblower report from coming to Congress, that is a violation of the law.

“The dam has broken because this is a form of betrayal of his presidential oath and national security that is taking place in real time,” said Rep. Jamie Raskin (D., Md.), who supports pursuing an impeachment inquiry. “Trump’s not just a candidate now, he’s president of the United States.”

Investigation May Harm Foreign Policy

Please consider Why Trump’s release of the Ukraine call transcript could hurt US foreign policy

President Donald Trump announced on Tuesday that he will “release the complete, fully declassified and unredacted transcript” of his July phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, a conversation that is at the center of a growing political scandal that has prompted appeals from Democrats for Trump to be impeached.

The scandal has to do with whether Trump improperly used his position to try to coerce the Ukrainian government into investigating his 2020 political opponent, former Vice President Joe Biden — perhaps by withholding military aid to the Eastern European country until it agreed.

Trump has admitted to discussing Biden with Ukraine, but he maintains that the phone call with Zelensky was “a very friendly and totally appropriate call.”

Putting the contents of the call out, some say, will help shed additional light on the issue. The problem is that the move is woefully inadequate — and could actually harm US foreign policy in the process.

Here’s why: Heads of state need the ability to speak candidly to one another, and they will only do that if they have 100 percent assurance that what they say will remain confidential. It takes a lot of trust to speak on the phone with another world leader about sensitive diplomatic and political issues.

“This is a big mistake — terrible precedent, as no foreign leaders in [the] future will speak candidly with the president on any future calls,” Michael McFaul, who served as the US ambassador to Russia during the Obama administration, tweeted after the news broke. “Presidents need to have the right to conduct diplomacy privately.”

Jumping the Gun by a Mile

All we have are comments from a whistleblower coupled with a document that Trump does not seem to mind sharing.

Democrats ought to at least wait until they have seen the underacted statements.

Even if those whistleblower comments are somehow pertinent to an impeachment process, unless the charges are bullet-proof and of a spectacular nature, there is no way the Senate will convict.

Trump Receives OK From Ukraine

Presume a Miracle

OK, presume a miracle. Trump is both impeached and convicted.

The Democrats would then run against Vice President Mike Pence.

Is that going to help or hurt their chances?

Stampede of Donkeys

I fail to see how this can do the Democrats any good.

At best this will become a slight distraction. At worst Trump will run rings around the Democrats via social media campaigns.

Nonetheless, the donkey stampede has finally reached critical mass. Every Democrat including the house Speaker is now sucked in.

Mike "Mish" Shedlock

Comments (149)
No. 1-49
awc13
awc13

finally, after 3 years of them(media and democrats, but i repeat myself) talking about it we will get to see everyone's cards.

Yancey_Ward
Yancey_Ward

As of this afternoon, it is life or death for either the Democrats or Trump. The Rubicon was crossed with Pelosi's press statement. At this point, if the Democrats don't impeach and convict, then Trump is going to win a landslide reelection. Right now, it looks like this Ukraine thing is just going to be the Mueller Report reenacted, and if that is the case, the Democrats are toast for the 2020 election.

Latkes
Latkes

Amazing that they are not concerned with Biden's crooked dealings.

Herkie
Herkie

Impeachment isn't going to work, the senate (Moscow Mitch) will not allow it. So, it seems kind of pointless to try. I do disagree about "Investigation May Harm Foreign Policy" though. It is the job of the house among many to keep the executive branch honest, particularly when the executive has a history of shady dealings and lack of restraint, or even rudimentary understanding of law and customs. Personally I wish they COULD impeach and send the orange one to prison, I would still vote GOP before I would vote for any current democrat running, I just wish I did not have to feel so dirty voting for a republican. I voted for McCain, I would vote for Weld, but barring any real chance to impeach all I am left with is the hope of an Adderall induced coronary.

themonosynaptic
themonosynaptic

This is purely political - it is to keep Trump talking about the investigation and acting irrationally throughout the 2020 election. I was with Pelosi - this would have been much better kicked off about February or March next year, to ensure that the hearings, the drama, the seediness played at the peak of the election, with the inevitable Senate acquittal as a political move as part of the election (as, of course the house hearings will be).

However, if they start this slowly, gather information and build a series of "under oath" statements, push Trump operatives to duck questions, etc. etc. for 5-6 months, then the Democrats can start the real show next Spring.

If they shoot their load over the holidays, they are being as useless politically as we have come to expect from the Democrats.

I'm sure Nancy's orders to Adam are - take it slowly, keep needling Trump so he loses it on a fairly regular basis, but make sure the fireworks come in August.

lol
lol

Permanently dead in the water economy is what's gonna bring down the Trump govt,soaring costs,soaring deficits,soaring dept no growth (outside of govt)in a decade,and all that pretending won't pay the bills....

shamrock
shamrock

We know that he's withholding the whistle blower complaint from Congress. That's illegal. We know that he declared an "emergency" to take money allocated by Congress and use it for a purpose they explicitly denied, that's unconstitutional. We know that on multiple occasions he told the world that he believes American's #1 enemy instead of his own intelligence and law enforcement agencies, that's treason. This is a short list of Trump's relentless law breaking.

Aaaal
Aaaal

Don't believe the hype. This is merely the far right dems insuring Trumpty's reelection.

Sechel
Sechel

I'm of the opinion the transcript should not get released because it would dissuade future foreign leaders form having conversations with a u.s. president but i am in favor of the white house releasing the whistle blower complaint and making the witness available because that is the law and the whistle blower wants to testify.

democrats have not filed formal charges of impeachment, they started a process. it is unlikely trump would have agreed to cooperate if they had not. simply based on reporting , trump's own statements and rudy's statements it looks as if something improper did occur. it is congress' role to investigate a role trump has stymied up to now.

abend237-04
abend237-04

Ironically, over-confidence flowing from the Democrat impeachment threat success in running Nixon out of town in 1974, when they held both houses and had the votes to do it, may now be what destroys the party for generations.

On the surface it looks like either a colossal miscalculation and blunder, or a desperate attempt to divert attention from poor, dumb Joe's openly bragging about injecting himself into the middle of a Ukrainian political corruption investigation and shutting it down. "Vice president threatens withholding of badly needed funds pending firing of prosecutor leading investigation."

Film, (endlessly through election), at eleven.

SMF
SMF

Never have I seen a group so insistent in assuring Trump's reelection in 2020 than the current crop of Dems.

Matt3
Matt3

So the Democrats are actually going to investigate Trump for withholding funds to influence Ukraine? Biden was bragging about withholding 1 Billion from Ukraine unless they fired the prosecutor investigating the company that paid his cocaine using son $50,000 a month. It worked and his kid kept getting the $50,000!! I'm not sure the democrats want to open the Ukraine discussion. I think Andy McCarthy has a pretty good summary of who influenced Ukraine to try to advantage the 2016 campaign. This might be a lot of fun for Trump.

abend237-04
abend237-04

I was initially enraged at the thought of a third person, he said/she said whistleblower, casually throwing head-of-state confidentiality into the nearest trash can in the latest attempt to get at Trump, but I've calmed down.

I never shared anything with anyone that I couldn't walk around the block with and have complete confidence that the secretarial staff wouldn't be talking about it by the time we got back., say,

Truth is, if you're a national leader and can't sense If you're dealing with a liar like, say, Juncker, you can't be helped. I'm going to assume that Trump at least asked permission of Ukraine to release the transcript.

Tengen
Tengen

I see people here and elsewhere talking about the death of a major political party due to stupidity (in this case, the blue team) but in reality this cannot happen.

Much like our zombie banks and zombie corporations, our two parties cannot die. They will be propped up at any cost because they need each other to maintain the illusion of choice. We can't have just one party, or one major party and some new smaller parties. We need the country split roughly in half with power shifting back and forth between the two teams every 5-10 years.

Even without outright manipulation, the parties are aided by the fact that we're on an economic/cultural downswing. Whatever party is in power will inevitably be blamed for our continuing decline, ensuring the other party rises again. It's a well oiled machine that Americans inexplicably keep believing in.

That said, this witch hunt is a dumb move. Trump serves as a pressure valve for many in the heartland. He's more valuable golfing and tweeting than he would be as a martyr. Fortunately for the blue team, no matter how dumb they are, they'll live to fight another day.

numike
numike

The most likely scenario is the Dems manage to shoot themselves in the dick again, don't even make it to a full impeachment, and Trump skates to reelection on the same heady combination of white nationalism and naked election rigging that got him elected in the first place. But ye gods, at least now we have some indication that the opposition is actually, ya know, opposed to this abuse, beyond sarcastic clapping and "have you no decency" op-eds. Note the measure of the next 4 or 5 voter polls, if the numbers for DT drop to 34 to 29% or so or even close then the Senate is in play and the panic will begin. Reminder: Order popcorn

Country Bob
Country Bob

(1) Trump asked the Ukrainian President if he had any objections to releasing the transcript of the call in full. Ukraine said, fine go ahead. So Trump is releasing both the transcript and the whistle blower's full complaint. The "investigation" is already over

(2) The whistle blower wasn't in on the call, nor was he in the room. The whistle blower says he heard something about the call second hand. In legal terms, its hearsay. In layman's terms, its bullsh!t. You can't blow the whistle on something you weren't actually present for.

(3) No President makes a private international phone call anymore. Hasn't happened in ages. LOTS of people are officially listening in on the call, from both political leaders' staffs. And all the spy agencies all over the world

(4) Joe Biden and his son are the most likely to be indicted by this investigation, if anyone. There are dozens of videos, copies all over the internet, of Joe bragging that he blackmailed Ukraine to drop their investigation into Biden's son or else Obama (at Biden's orders) would withhold billions in US aid

Biden might go to prison. Seems unlikely given all the other corruption that the FBI dropped the ball on. But Biden cooked his own goose.

Jackula
Jackula

Weird move, I don't get it. Biden is sure to be dragged thru the mud on this deal unless it is a move to energize Biden's run cause the loyalists on both sides don't care.

AshH
AshH

"The Democrats would then run against Vice President Mike Pence."

Bingo. I'd edit to add that they would be running against the de-facto incumbent President Pence, which would be harder to beat. I've long believed that if Clinton would have resigned, that we would have had President Gore instead of Bush.

Country Bob
Country Bob

I am surprised no one else has mentioned the most likely explanation for Pelosi's change of heart on what she knows is a pointless investigation....

Pelosi is corrupt and manipulative, but she is also machevellian at politics. She makes the characters on "House of Cards" look like saints. So lets look at this circus from her perspective.

The three idiots (AOC, the muslim chick, and that other one) have been challenging Pelosi at every turn, trying to radicalize the democratic party to be even more extremist than it already was. Losers like Judiciary Chair Nadler and Banking Chair Waters have been trying to push their wacky agenda, even when Pelosi told them to cut the crap. And then the socialists Bernie and Pochahantis who exhibit not only insubordination and stupidity -- but outright insanity.

Pelosi knows good and well the nonsense against Trump is just that. But she has decension in her ranks, and a President / adversary who chews people up on Tweets for his own amusement.

And Pelosi knows none of the 25+ clowns running for President have a snowflakes chance in hell of winning. They are just there to keep the seat warm until 2024. This isn't about actually defeating Trump.

This impeachment investigation is about Pelosi regaining control of the democratic party. Its Pelosi letting the crazies get too far out on their skis, leaving her back in control. Trump is the executioner, not the target.

2banana
2banana

Translation.

Democrats have seen the poll numbers. They are going to get creamed in 2020. They have to do something now to stop it.

Even if it means the destruction of the pillars of American government.

Latkes
Latkes

2020 is going to be Trump versus Warren.

2banana
2banana

Ok. Let me think.

The democrats want to impeach Trump because a "whistleblower" said he may have said something inappropriate in a private conversation with another foriegn leader.

Despite the facts:

The whistleblower actually didn't even hear the conversation.

The whistleblower has a bias against Trump.

Biden is on tape actually bragging about extortion or quid pro quo to the same country. And not one democrat cared.

Biden's son was involved in outright corruption in the same country using his father's connections.

Trump will release the unredacted transcript of the conversation.

Conclusion:

RBG is on her deathbed. The democrats want to tie up the Senate with an impeachment trial to stall the SCOTUS nomination.

stillCJ
stillCJ

Editor

Britt Hume had the best explanation of the democrat debacle on TV tonight: He said Nancy had to give the wacky lefties in her party something, while avoiding a vote on impeachment which would hurt democrats in close races next time. Notice she only said "investigate" the matter, not a vote which would be necessary to start real proceedings. So the investigation circus will continue, as before. The so-called whistleblower doesn't know anything, he just reported a rumor he heard (and liked). This is all so stupid I'm beginning to fell sorry for the democrat party. I don't like idiots being the "Leaders" of my country.

stillCJ
stillCJ

Editor

" Every Democrat including the house Speaker is now sucked in." Well that is not exactly true, only about 2/3 of the House dems have TDS and that is not enough to win a vote, which is another reason Nancy did not actually call for a vote. She might seem crazy, but she's not stupid.

JimmyInMinny
JimmyInMinny

Nancy is bowing to pressure from the crazy left--- and when it comes out that this is also a blank shell, the voters will re-elect Trump and they might well lose the House again.

numike
numike

“The evidence is overwhelming that George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney have engaged in deceit and deception over going to war in Iraq. This is an impeachable offense.” ― John W. Dean

JimmyInMinny
JimmyInMinny

In the course of this investigation, Biden's lil extortion of the Ukrainians might well cook his goose. We might well see Trump v Hillary 2

Injun1
Injun1

This is simply a joke. There are three losers out of this process. (a) The Democratic Party. (b) Joe Biden and family. (c) And the American citizen. The Democrats on political life support, pulled the plug on themselves. The golfer Lee Trevino was once asked about Jack Nicklaus playing poorly. Lee responded by telling the reporter, Shhhh don't wake the sleeping bear! The Democrats are waking the sleeping Barr.

Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer

Sorry guys. I told you for months he would be impeached before the summer of 2020. I voted for him but he no longer can break the laws of the presidency and hold office. This has nothing to with party anymore.

stillCJ
stillCJ

Editor

Sad but funny that first the dems accuse Trump of hiding the phone call details, and then when he releases it another dem says it is illegal to do that. Now that they have another Nothingburger, they will "Investigate!" (some more) and try to find something else. Meanwhile the Crimes of Biden are ignored. Accusing the opposition of the crimes done by your side is an old communist tactic. You can read the other commie tactics the left is using now in "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky, Obama's hero.

Jojo
Jojo

Let's assume the Impeachment inquiry produces sufficient evidence to forward articles of impeachment to the Senate. Then let's further assume, as many are predicting, that the Senate will stick to their usual partisan divisions and Trump doesn't get impeached.

If I were a Dem, at election time, I'd take the record of any Pubs who voted against clear evidence as being in cahoots with powers that want to destroy the USA from within, of abdicating their sworn responsibility to the citizens of the USA.

Under this scenario, I would expect Trump to lose by a landslide AND CONGRESS to turn heavily Democratic.

Pelosi is playing 4-D chess with you puny hu-mans!

Freebees2me
Freebees2me

To those who think Trump is toast, just wait....he owns these clowns....

Remember the Russian dossier? How did that work out? Remember the Mueller Obstruction? How did that work out? Remember Stormy Daniels? How did that work out? Remember Cohen & Campaign Violations? How did that work out?

Fact is there has been a soft coup d'état to dump Trump that started even before he was elected. Now it's just out in the open.

And, if you want to see real fascism, just wait until Trump is gone. Then the Swamp will do everything in its power (for the GOOD OF THE PEOPLE!) to make sure that a candidate of the masses never ever can get elected.

Whether you like Trump or not, there's no disagreement that he is not the "Swamp's" guy. That's why he can't drain it fast enough for me....

Jojo
Jojo

Don't read this Trumpanzee's, It will totally bust your Biden conspiracy bubble.

Trump and Giuliani’s Quest for Fake Ukraine “Dirt” on Biden: An Explainer by Viola Gienger September 10, 2019

JanNL
JanNL

A lot of TDS in these comments. Interesting.

Sechel
Sechel

Trump would not have released the whistle blower complaint or the transcript if not for the impeachment move. He wasn't doing it before and when asked replied with a word salad answer. It was only after Pelosi that Trump said he would. Additionally Senate Republicans voted to see the whistle blower complaint. This isn't about doing any good for Democrats but rule of law and whether Trump abused his power. There's a lot of credible evidence coming straight from Trump and Giulliani that he did.

Seems moronic that Trump even approached Ukraine to have them investigate Biden. And having the state department prod Ukraine to work with his private lawyer? If there was an issue and it doesn't appear there was it should have been handled by the FBI. Are we really to believe that this is about corruption and Trump would have interjected if there wasn't a 2020 race and Biden wasn't his opponent?

Transcript of the call isn't even that important or key. The idea that Trump may have issued a threat on the call Biden or no money is absurd. It's enough to repeatedly request a Biden investigation while withholding aid. Timing is important. The request to Mulvaney to stop the check days before the phone call looks terrible.

Even if the Senate does not vote to remove and nobody believes they will the House action has merit.

KidHorn
KidHorn

Too soon to tell. We'll have to wait an see what's released.

Even if everything the dems claim is true, I'm not sure Trump did anything illegal or wrong. It's common for US officials to withhold aid unless certain conditions are met and I doubt asking for an investigation into something that might be amiss is illegal. It seems this would be similar to what the dems did in 2016 with regards to the dossier.

Sechel
Sechel

..but the United States has been very ·very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very . good to Ukraine.

sounds like a quid pro quo right there

Harry-Ireland
Harry-Ireland

By the way, isn't it time for Pelosi and Schumer to clear the field? All they seem to be doing is cling to their 'power' and nothing else. Certainly not helping the country or presenting a reasonable election program.

Brother
Brother

Negotiation and using tactics are all part of the president’s job every single president in the past has done exactly what he is being accused of. All too recently Biden has done that exact thing under Obama there even video of him bragging about it and no one said a peep.

Country Bob
Country Bob

Pelosi gives the idiots in her party enough rope to hang themselves, hoping to retake control of the dems when the idiots go to far...

...but the story collapses while her face is still the one in the news cycle. WHOOPS

Jojo
Jojo

Donald Trump vs. the United States of America Just the facts, in 40 sentences. David Leonhardt Sept. 22, 2019

Sometimes it’s worth stepping back to look at the full picture.

bfisher
bfisher

Actually this event seems to me to be a take down of Biden. There is no way he doesn't lose pole position with everyone talking about this and the China Connection. Now; its either 4D chess by Trump or its another Democrat targeting Biden. Either way the best they can hope for is just another cloud over Trump during the elections. It wont be enough.

Jackula
Jackula

I'm still struggling to wrap my head around this...I can't see it leading to anything but a removal of Biden from contention and a show impeachment trial which the senate will never approve.

Webej
Webej

T he T a k e A w a y

The Dems are proving to the American people that they are willing to preempt the democratic process and impeach the president that the people elected, pre-empting a new election in Trump's favor by impeaching him just 13 months before the people get to decide themselves.

All the screaming about democracy is an attempt to hide their own willingness tamper with democracy, rule of law, and non-political policing institutions: the end justifies the means is their motto. Just like the screaming about Russian "hybrid" warfare and "constitutional" lying is a projection of the intel's community own action.

They are showing that they have already given up on Biden and are willing to throw him under the bus, focusing intense negative attention on him (the story of Biden's Burisma fracking infrastructure criss-crossing the supply lines of Ukraine's shelling of civilian apartment buildings has been public knowledge since 2014, for those who actually dig into the facts a little). They have given up on the elections, and are now doubling down on impeachment instead, all to the chorus of "Democracy".

They are liars who are betraying themselves by the content of their denials.

Freebees2me
Freebees2me

Let's face it, while Pelosi and the of the Dems think Republicans are nothing but a bunch of 'smelly' Walmart dults. it is patently clear she has been greater disdain for her 'supposed' supporters.

Oh how she can tickle their ears: Pelosi knows her supporters are so dumb that they can all be placated with a few 'pretty words' about starting an 'impeachment process'. Pelosi has taken no action - none, zip, nada! She gabbled out some 'pretty words" and BINGO! (Shades of Obama...) Even the brain-trust masquerading as the 'Squad' says - GREAT! Finally, we're doing it - impeaching the MF!

But truth has it's own way. The simple fact remains: the House is doing nothing to impeach Trump than they were doing 24 hours ago. Period...

Yea, she's smart. Well, she's at least one-degree smarter than then all the dumb asses who think something 'more' is actually happening...

frozeninthenorth
frozeninthenorth

People seem to forget that Nixon thought that the GOP would protect him, and they did, until they stopped -- the next morning Nixon resigned. Frankly, in the polls Trump is by far his worse enemy! Mike Pence is an unknown -- the calucaltion will be that, and nothing else. Will Trump kil the GOP in 2020 or will he help them -- that's it!

Expat
Expat

Perhaps the Democrats are more interested in preserving and protecting the Constitution than any of the other baser reasons others mention?

Trump Derangement Syndrome is real; Trump supporters are incapable of assessing his actions or behaviors in a rational manner. They are also not capable of playing a thought game and substituting Hillary for Donald and seeing how they would respond.

The only defense of Trump's actions has been from Yertle the Turtle McConnell who insisted that there was no explicit quid pro quo. Essentially, McConnell is claiming that no one should ever be convicted unless they admit to the crime ("Give me your money" while holding a gun is not robbery since the gun-holder does not say "or I will shoot you." The threat is implied so McConnell would argue there is no crime, merely a person begging while enjoying his 2nd Amendment rights.)

America is fucked so I really don't care whether or not Trump stays or goes. But I would really enjoy seeing a Democrat come in and behave just like Donald and watch Republicans go insane with outrage. Basically, just a bunch of whiny snowflakes.

Impeach Trump. Give us Pence. While he might he an insane, homophobic wind-up GI Joe toy, he can't be any worse than the cunt sitting in the Oval Office right now.