Support for Impeachment Peaked in October

Support for impeachment, regardless of political affiliation, peaked in October.

For a Brief Moment

Polls courtesy of FiveThirtyEight, anecdotes mine.

Partisan Brawl

The New York Times reports With White House Absent, Impeachment Devolves Into Partisan Brawl.

President Trump is refusing to engage and Democrats have concluded they will press ahead anyway, rendering a historic undertaking little more than a foregone conclusion.

Excuse me for pointing out the result was a foregone conclusion whether the White House was present or not.

“That is a tragedy,” said Philip Bobbitt, a Columbia University law professor and a leading expert on the history of impeachment. The framers of the Constitution were careful to design a process for removing a president from office that they hoped would rise above the nation’s petty political squabbles, he said.

Tragedy?

Yes, witch hunts are a tragedy. Republicans found that out when they foolishly went after Bill Clinton.

Boycott the Process

Neal Katyal, the former acting solicitor general under President Barack Obama, called it “deeply dangerous” for the target of an impeachment like Mr. Trump to simply boycott the entire process.

Does the law prohibit a boycott? Does the law require the president to testify against himself? Is it dangerous to accept the advice of legal council?

Rule Book

“The fact is that the House Democrats are essentially giving Trump the same process as previous presidents have received, and it’s Trump who is trying to throw out the rule book” and attack the process at every turn, he said. “Our founders put impeachment in the Constitution as a critical safeguard for the people, and what Trump is trying to do with these baseless attacks is read the impeachment clauses out of the Constitution.”

His response has been an all-out attack on the process itself. He has ordered administration officials not to testify or hand over documents. And he is urging Republicans not to cooperate with their counterparts the way they did during Mr. Clinton’s impeachment.

Excuse me for pointing out that the law is the rule book.

What law has trump violated by boycotting the process?

Shocking?

Of course it is.

Trump continually followed the advice of legal council instead of sticking his foot in his mouth and Tweeting about it.

Quite shocking.

Hijacking the Committee

Here's an interesting take.

Business Insider reports Republicans Hijacked the House Judiciary Committee's Impeachment Hearings and Turned them Into a Circus.

I expect better from the Business Insider than that kind of mushy nonsense.

The only way Republicans could "hijack" the hearings is if inept Democrats called on inept witnesses and Republican made them look like fools.

That is precisely what happened.

Democrat Impeachment Star Witnesses Useful as Dust

In case you missed it, please consider Democrat Impeachment Star Witnesses Useful as Dust

Click on that link for an amusing video and transcript.

Comments on the Unreal World

Back in the real world, or do I mean unreal world, I get accused of having TDS every time I attack Trump's idiotic trade policy.

I also get accused of being an extreme Left-Wing nutcase when I defend Trump.

The fact is, I don't like Trump but I voted for him and would again vs Hillary.

I am a staunch anti-war, fiscal conservative, Libertarian, who does not give a damn about anyone's race, religion, sex, or age. I believe in equal rights. I also believe in the right to choose. If two women or two men want to get married, I believe it's none of my business.

I believe that's a winning platform.

Alas, one cannot get nominated on that platform. Thus, I always have extreme voting compromises to make.

Independents the Key

The 2020 election will depend on independents.

Democrats may make the choice easy, as explained in How to Re-Elect Trump in One Easy Lesson.

Mike "Mish" Shedlock

Comments (56)
No. 1-21
thimk
thimk

"Trump continually followed the advice of legal council instead of sticking his foot in his mouth and Tweeting about it." Is orange man learning to keep his mouth shut? Mentioning Biden while conversing with Ukraine pres was huge folly . He should be aware his actions are unfairly placed under a microscope , and that his failure to remove all remnants of the previous admin are detrimental . You can't regret something you did not say . - Be sure to ring that bell ! :)

shamrock
shamrock

themonosynaptic
themonosynaptic

Trump is as guilty as sin. Republican politicians are so scared of their base who love Trump that they will look the other way to anything. As you said, this was a foregone conclusion, but at least it documented that we have a criminal in the White House. What horse's asses these people are.

Zardoz
Zardoz

Truth is not determined by voting.

Freebees2me
Freebees2me

Last I checked, Trump is still President and living in the White House, while the Dems are imploding. Happy Days! ;-)

More Fun to Come

The Dems will eat each other up during the primaries and go into their convention with no nominee. This will result in a nuclear-level floor fight to arrive at one.

Look for Clinton to try and ride in on her white horse, which will send the LEFT-LEFT into orbit.

Not sure the Democratic party can survive all this - nor should they.

az_dirt
az_dirt

The Brownshirts, huh, umm, I mean the Republicans are trying to disrupt these hearings just like they tried to disrupt the prior hearings and by storming the closed door hearings because they really don't have any thing else. Nobody's denying the facts of the case - Trump used U.S. foreign policy to further his own political goals. Full stop. Overlooking Trump's personal behavior is one thing, giving him a pass as he corrupts the government and tries to turn it into an instrument of Trump, Inc., is another. Unfortunately he's so flawed he can't tell the difference and needs to go.

"The start of Monday's Judiciary Committee impeachment hearing was filled with back-and-forth bickering between Republican members and Nadler over points of order and parliamentary inquiries."

Sechel
Sechel

Mish. I get it. You've listened to the evidence and weren't impressed. I paid very close attention and came to the complete opposite conclusion. Not a witch hunt. Not even close. Seems clear Donald Trump place his interests above the nations. He should be impeached.

Sechel
Sechel

Never cared for Hillary, but at the time I believed we'd be far better off with her over Trump . She wasn't my first choice but by the time November came she was the only choice. Three years of Trump have convinced me I was right.

And no sane person would hire Trump to run their business , yet the country has hired him to run the government. It's insane. Can you imagine Boeing hiring Trump to head their company? Nobody can

RonJ
RonJ

"Business Insider reports Republicans Hijacked the House Judiciary Committee's Impeachment Hearings and Turned them Into a Circus."

A while back i came across B.I. I came to realize they had an anti Trump bias and stopped going to their site.

WildBull
WildBull

Seems to me to be a question of probable cause. Did Trump have reason to believe that the Bidens were engaging in activities in the Ukraine that were in violation of federal law? If so, there is no amount political BS the Dems can dredge to have reason to impeach. If not, well then...

I have heard nothing about this. This is the crux of it. The use of foreign aid to coerce foreign governments is pretty much its reason to exist. This is pretty well understood by all the A-Holes on all sides. I'm sick of this stupid circus

Sechel
Sechel

This goes mostly to the inability or lack of desire of the American people to focus. Republicans tried to engage in as many stunts as possible knowing Americans would tire and want to move on.

RonJ
RonJ

"Yes, witch hunts are a tragedy."

And this is a witch hunt, despite Sechel's claim it is not.

Trump was not a member of the political club and they have been out to get him from before Trump even got the nomination. He is not one of "us." That is why he was spied on, unlike any presidential candidate before him.

There were 51 violations of Woods procedures in the FISA warrants. 9 of the violations were false statements. That goes beyond making simple mistakes, as Horowitz claimed.

The so-called whistleblower is being hidden from public view, not because his life is in danger, considering his name is already a badly kept secret, but to hide the facts surrounding him from public scrutiny and cross examination.

Yes, it is a witch hunt.

Rvrider
Rvrider

I’ve been an independent and voting the lesser of evils since since 1976 (Mish summed up the conundrum). I usually feel filthy afterwards. Here’s my voting history before I make my point: Carter, Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, abstained, Bush, Bush, Obama, Romney (wish I had abstained), Trump. The only vote I felt really good about BEFORE AND STILL DO — the first term of Reagan. I found Trump’s name calling, boasting, exaggerating, and apparent lack of frontal lobes disturbing— I almost abstained for a second time, but the Clinton’s have proven to be evil and corrupt beyond a shadow of doubt to my mind. I had to vote against her. Trump has identified, provoked, and successfully humiliated the establishment Republicans and Democrats as well as the entrenched bureaucracy’s leadership that runs our country. Their corruption, including the false narratives regarding Trump’s “impeachable offenses” are on full display, especially the corporate owned MSM. I plan to vote for Trump a second time for the sole purpose of punishing the establishment and “elite” who think they can override an election. It helps that all the alternatives are bat crap crazy.

Mish
Mish

Editor

In context - Trump has said nothing damaging to himself regarding impeachment. And he followed advice to not appear in his own defense in the House.

This is a good score for Trump

2 Replies

Sechel
Sechel

Other than the call notes he released or intimidating witnesses?

Klagorio
Klagorio

Intimidating witnesses? Where and who ? Maybe he is finally learning and listening to the people around him! I agree with Mish! This is a double edge sword for both sides and the Dems are blowing this one more than Trump! Might be good for the Taxpayers for a change, stopping some of this graft for a while!

numike
numike

Trying to listen to this impeachment inquiry is pretty hard. I am beginning to lose faith in our lawmakers to do what's best for this country. It has gotten too partisan which has completely hindered the chance of coming together to do what's right for the people of the USA

Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer

Trump will continue to self-destruct until April 2020. The window for impeachment AND removal is wide open until then. The real problem I have with Trump (as a Trump voter in 2016) is that he didn't need to use all these underhanded methods with the Ukraine and Russia (or any other foreign party). He had both parties cornered in 2016 but it is as if he didn't think he could keep it up without cheating. This is why I say he continues to self-destruct. The guy just cannot stop himself. The biggest difference between the two parties and Trump is that Trump cannot use the institutionalized ways of cheating that the two parties have put in place.

Finally, I suggest anyone who wants to learn about how Russia operates read Sandworm. The GRU is literally using every method to fight virtual wars. No one would have an issue with this if Russia were actually a democracy. I expect the 2020s to be absolute chaos geopolitically. A actual nuclear war will likely break out somewhere. in North Africa or Asia.

BaronAsh
BaronAsh

I think the main purpose of the impeachment is to counterbalance the upcoming Durham prosecutions so that they can spin them as a corrupt attempt to deflect their legitimate impeachment drive. If there is anything approaching a fair trial in the Senate, the impeachment will fall flat since thus far nothing has come close to being a crime. I mean: since when is it a crime to use foreign aid as a bargaining chip? And if many millions of USG funds were siphoned off corruptly as is alleged and not really denied (Burisma et alia), since when is it a crime to a) investigate more about that and b) consider withholding further funding until safeguards are in place?

The whole thing is silly - and indeed quite possibly Biden's candidacy was mounted purely for the benefit of this impeachment drama since without him being a candidate they would have no grounds at all to resist any investigations into it, nor therefore use them as the basis for impeachment. It's a classic 'pot calling kettle black' scenario.

Given how entirely flimsy the whole thing is, that's why I think the purpose is elsewhere (namely deflecting upcoming Durham revelations). But on its own, it's a terrible abuse of congressional power, and they know it. So they must be doing this for a reason that goes beyond the frame of the impeachment process itself which has been nakedly partisan and one-sided.... no matter what, they had to get it through whether or not it would succeed.

In short: it's a Big Fat Talking Point (like nearly everything else in Congress these days...)

Klagorio
Klagorio

Trump did nothing wrong he was looking out for the country! Biden and all of these other politician are the crooks. They now go overseas and get their payoffs from foreign countries. Even George Soros is in the Ukraine poking around . Probably giving other payoffs to crooked politicians. This place seems to be the hub of this activity! Remember one thing when the politicians of a country do not represent the masses any more but only their own special interests, will cause an eventual revolution ! That is what we all have to look forward too unless there are massive changes!. Get out of the big cities and away from the coastal areas! Wars we do not want happen in other places, Mother nature rises up against as well, and the scariest part is we do not know what we will eventually end up with! History we do not teach anymore shows us this very clearly from the time democratic republics were formed! I agree with Mish's philosophy 100% , I just have not become a Libertarian, yet!

Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer

"The 2020 election will depend on independents."

I agree Mish but expect the unexpected in 2020. For one there are going to be a ton of new voters in Texas and other places in the south. I don't think the Republican party will be able to count on low voter turnout so they try to scare more people into not voting or showing up on election day. A big reason why Hillary lost is because nearly everyone in both parties assumed she would win so many voters stayed home in swing states. I also expect the GRU to try and be a factor again in 2020 in swing states. Hacking elections is their core competency.

Herkie
Herkie

Mish, this is sort of a non story, of course polls peaked and will now just settle down till the actual meat of the soap opera really gets going.

Though you can't expect a hyperpartisan poll to give you any real idea of the feelings out there.

The latest I have seen is that 54% want impeachment, 50% want removal, there is no good way for the right to spin that you know. But, if you think Pelosi and the other dem leaders are delivering a couple of bland impeachment charges that are subjective and not really "high crimes" and just leave it at that you know better. There are other shoes yet to drop and timing is key.

I think there will be indictments of individuals close to Trump that will hit just in time to blindside Moscow Mitch and his planned non trial in the senate, so that he actually has to do a REAL trial.

Make no mistake, Trump has committed crimes and at an impeachable level. A majority wants impeachment, and pretty much exactly half want removal, this going into the primary season that starts in a few weeks. Even if the democrats fail to get any impeachment traction it is in a political cycle where only 34% say they will vote for Trump NO MATTER WHAT! And as an intelligent adult that you clearly are I would ask you man to man how that attitude is any better for the nation than the NEVER TRUMPERS?

Mind you I do expect the GOP to come out winning in the end but not for the right reasons. It is because demographics will emphasize the age divide between moderate democrats who are your actual friends (at least political FRENEMIES?), and the radical democrats taking over the party and which have no loyalty to the party and will sabotage the democrats just as the Sanders voters stayed at home en masse in 2016 and some even voted for Trump because they wanted Sanders over Hillary. That is going to replay but with the numbers four years larger demographically. Too bad because it is a suicidal vote management that can only please Putin.

Herkie
Herkie

Seriously though, I am a lifelong DEMOCRATand the reason is really simple; I am a gay man and that means voting GOP is just out of the question unless the actual survival of the nation depends on voting otherwise.

Well, I am afraid 2020 may be just exacly that kind of situation where there is no good choice no matter sexual orientation or sentimental values or anything else. Your party has excluded so many people that you now find yourself in a demographic trap. You have to expand your base or lose. It is just that simple. No buts, no qualifications, and you now will need people like me to even get to the questionable win of an electoral college error like 2016.

My situation is this, I honestly believe that Donald Trump is a criminal and a Nazi, maybe Nazi lite, but so was Hitler when he first took office, remember he became Chancellor in January of 1933 and the war did not start till late 1939. The death camps came even later. Give Trump that kind of time and you too will be justifying everything he does for one reason or another. Of course Hitler was was 43 years old when he took power and Trump will be lucky to make it through the primaries.

Sorry, I know people get upset at that comparison, but just how do you think Germany got where it did? It was by political partisanship run amok. We actually are really in the same exact position now as they were then.

Ask yourself why a man like me would ever support your party with it's history of denying rights, it's absolutist clinging to superstitions and sentiments that are as fake as Melania's boobs just for power and politics.

If I agree to vote for your criminal in chief in 2020 it will not be because I want to be a bible kissing asshole that will do anything to put brown people in their place, it will be because your enemy (socialism) is OUR enemy. And I think it both rude and unkind that you and your party do not recognize the fact that MOST democrats feel the same way about socialism as you do. We can and do disagree about how to run society and capitalism on many levels, but we both agree that society and capitalism are the only things that matter, without them we all lose. There are no personal politics once a man like Sanders gets into office. That is a very real possibility, to say he is our Hugo Chavez is an insult to Hugo Chavez may he rot in hell.

I am willing to postpone our argument on your faux morality and your absurd fiscal conservatism but you have to pay your part of the deal, you have to dump the orange spy installed by Putin. And you have to get rid of Moscow Mitch because in many important ways he is guarantees that the GOP remains a tool of Russia. And that is real and you know it. If you deny the truth then it is over for all of us because you will lose people like me who can compromise to secure the nation. Without people like me you will lose and people like Sanders will win. Then we all lose. In other words, you have to meet me halfway or the deal is off. And you know as well as I do that 4 more years of Trump will destroy this nation. It will break up.