Trump Threatens to Blacklist Chinese Tech Companies

-edited

The trade talks are not going well. China threatens to pull out and Trump threatens Chinese companies.

Blacklist Retaliation

With trade talks on the verge of collapse China Says ‘Stay Tuned’ for Blacklist Retaliation.

Key Points

  • China poured cold water on hopes for a trade deal, signaling it would retaliate against the U.S. threat to put Chinese tech companies on a blacklist, just two days ahead of the highly anticipated trade talks in Washington.
  • Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang on Tuesday said “stay tuned,” when asked whether China would retaliate for the blacklist over alleged human rights violations against Muslim minorities.
  • “We urge the U.S. to immediately correct its mistake, withdraw the relevant decision and stop interfering in China’s internal affairs,” Geng said at a news conference according to a transcript on the Foreign Ministry’s website. “China will continue to take firm and forceful measures to resolutely safeguard national sovereignty, security and development interests.”
  • The White House is reportedly discussing blocking government pension funds from investing in China, further dimming expectations for a trade deal. Peter Navarro, the Trump administration’s trade policy director, however, denied the reports, calling them “fake news.”

Two Key Questions

  1. More acts of desperation?
  2. When does Kudlow come on and say everything is fine?

Mike "Mish" Shedlock

Comments (84)
No. 1-17
Freebees2me
Freebees2me

Mish,

It's pressure. Trump's deep into it now. Chinese are playing the long-game, while Trump is playing to the crowd (i.e., 2020)...

And, yes, they will 'bring out the clowns' shortly to tell us ALL IS WELL! ALL IS WELL! No need to panic...

Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer

Some may find it weird but I am in favor of the crackdown and cutting off trade talks with China. Remove them from the WTO also. If we are going to stand on our principles, we need to let all communist nations rot from the inside and helping them by facilitating trade is not the way to do that. When you deal with the devil you have to make compromises and the ONLY way not to do that is not deal with the devil.

TQQQ
TQQQ

I went long TQQQ in 2011 and am up 50x. I wonder how much longer can the bears keep reading their porn. Porn is porn. Don't do it.

Je'Ri
Je'Ri

The real news will be when Kudlow comes on and says things are not fine. Fade Kudlow until then.

Bam_Man
Bam_Man

The Globalist Oligarchs are not liking this. Not one bit. Thanks to Trump, they will have to find some other third-world, slave-labor hell hole to move their production to, or heaven forbid move it back to the US and watch their profit margins get cut in half. I can hear them yelling "Impeach him FASTER!!!" right now.

abend237-04
abend237-04

The problem a Chinese trade negotiator has when negotiating with the US is the 1,400,000,000 people standing behind the curtain. Any hint of concession or compromise is potentially deadly, witness the ease with which Mao plunged China into chaos repeatedly with boondogles like "The Great Leap Forward" and "The Cultural Revolution." The handling of the first recession in the Deng era wasn't much better...Tiananmen Square.

We've spent 40 years teaching Chinese business deal negotiators that we don't give a damn about IP. (It wasn't intentional, it just happens naturally when you send your best salesmen to find a way into that "vast China market".) They couldn't turn on a dime now even if they wanted to, and they certainly don't want to.

The only hope for peaceful trade progress is the one used repeatedly throughout the ages when giants collide: Fair and impartial third party arbitration.

And I know the line is forming to piss on the WTO as I type, but it's the only one we have on this particular planet at this point in time.

Country Bob
Country Bob

The real story is in Hong Kong, not two groups of bureaucrats who will or won't meet based on the level of hors d'ouvres that they don't pay for anyway.

Hong Kong doesn't want to be ruled by Beijing, Beijing cannot accept anyone challenging their rule (because then everyone will want to stop central planning).

If the PLA clamps down on the protests in Hong Kong, they would "win" in an hour or two.... but the brain drain out of Hong Kong and Shanghai would be so fast it would make Xi spin like a top.

If the protests drag on, a lot of Hong Kongians? Hong Kongers? A lot of HK residents are going to make plans to leave, even if the plans are "just in case"

China depends on "Special Economic Zones" (aka Hong Kong, Shanghai, and areas around JinJaing). Without those zones, Chinese growth looks pitiful. But those special zones operate with limited Beijing central planning (no central planning "yet" in Hong Kong's case).

China's government has a really serious problem on their hands, and its not the USA or Trump. Its their two systems, one government schizophrenia.

The fact that the NBA (Houston Rockets?) are taking the side of Hong Kong is rubbing salt in Beijing's wounds.

All over the world, central economic planning is smashing face first into a brick wall, and the central planners don't like it.

thimk
thimk

Trump could have gone light on the tariffs and stronger on effecting china's capital account . i believe it would be more effective . starve them of US dollars. hell the bank of china has a sub that sells FDIC cd's. The Chinese have raised billions in US dollars via stock adr's , bonds. And don't forget they don't need to steal IP they just buy the company . But remember wall street is a heavy promoter of such products. Chinese ADR's aren't subject to SEC reporting requirements. Go figure - that money goes into the Chinese abyss .

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab

How many people here have actually negotiated deals with the Chinese? I'm not talking bargaining in a market or having dinner at the local Chinese restaurant.

My experience is limited to two instances, both unpleasant, both with cultural conflicts. No 'deal' is ever really agreed to, always subject to manipulation, counter offer, withdrawal, etc. You're better off scratching your ass than shaking hands.

None of this comes as a surprise to me. If I wanted to get a good trade deal, now more than ever is the time to stand firm. Massively overbuilt and over supplied, China will cave before the US does.

FromBrussels
FromBrussels

I admit I am not sophisticated enough for grandiloquent explanations and mathematical presentations, so allow me to express my common sense driven humble opinion : this overpopulated, half destroyed world, this overindulgent social economic paradigm we ve been enjoying for decades in our prosperous regions is simply at the end of its overendebted wits ! SO my ONLY question is : HOW is all this going to END ? With the emphasis on END ... and NO, allowing a tsunami of even more China stuff to taxfreely inundate our markets won t save our asses ! ENLIGHTEN me pundits , I dare you !

numike
numike

A recent edition of NPR’s Planet Money explored the injection of third-party investors in the courtroom and how in asymmetrical civil cases, backing in the form of extra funds might allow a disadvantaged plaintiff to pursue justice on more equal footing. https://www.npr.org/2019/10/02/766556249/episode-942-capitalism-in-the-courtroom

Zardoz
Zardoz

Yay! What do we win next?

Country Bob
Country Bob

@numike -- "“Meet the Rich Kids Who Want to Give Away All Their Money”"

Imagine how useless and lazy these "rich kids" are that they won't even lift a finger to give away their parents' wealth. They want government bureaucrats or their butler to give away the money for them!

If they were serious and wanted to help others -- and it wasn't just a lazy kid virtue signaling -- they could go and mentor other less fortunate kids. They could pay off other's student loans. They could fund a homeless shelter. They could fund a soup kitchen at a local church.

But that would require work. They would have to ask their butler to bring them their cell phone, get the number for a soup kitchen, and then instruct their trust officer to write a check for them... that's a lot of work for kids that have never even cleaned their own laundry.

The story is just useless people virtue signaling each other. They have no idea what it takes to get a job, they have never cleaned their own rooms.

Realist
Realist

Country Bob makes a good point about Jimmy Carter in one of his many posts. I have always believed in individuals doing what they can to make the world a better place. Carter does that by giving of both his money and his time.

Charitable donations are great, but it’s even better if you can also donate your time to help others.It helps inspire far more than just writing a check (or cheque for some). I find that if people just give money alone, it’s far less effective than if they also give some time.

I encourage everyone on this site to donate what time and money you can afford, to help others and make the world a better place. As if have mentioned before, my main charitable work is to help others acquire the skills necessary today to get a better job. However, there are many other worthwhile causes. I realize that as individuals, we are each only a small drop in a big bucket. But there is strength in numbers. Millions (or billions) of small actions add up and make a big difference.

There are some on this site who spend many hours per day posting comments (some post 20+ comments almost every day!), most of which are a litany of complaints. Perhaps if you spent a portion of that time helping make the world a better place, there would be less to complain about.

Some here like to promote individual freedom and personal responsibility; both very noble things. Donating your time and money is a great example of individual freedom working where government does not.

I will check back later today to see if any of you reply to this post with more complaints. To save a few of you some time: My expectations are to hear people call me a communist, or socialist, or left wing nut job. Some will say I am part of some conspiracy. Others will tell me to go sing Kumbaya with the other flakes out there. Or some other nonsense that you love to hate.

Cheers!

Country Bob
Country Bob

I have nothing to do with @Realist post

Its one thing for people to volunteer their own time and/or money -- that is their own choice.

But its fraud, not hippy-ism when taxpayers must "volunteer" money and time or face IRS penalties and jail time. They aren't choosing to help, they are doing so at gun point.

That is why socialism will fail. It starts off with a fraud that slavery is the same as volunteerism. If you are being compelled to do something, it is not volunteer at all.

Damn all socialists. You are all frauds

Sechel
Sechel

More stupidity. Kudlow is just the spin guy. Why he does it , is beyond me. He must have money issues. He's clearly not influencing policy.

Trump being too obvious for his own good. He could have pushed for more stringent reporting standards or audit standards which would have had some of the same impact but would not have reeked with protectionism and blocking capital formation and investments.